[BNM] noagenciesplease

Tom Nixon bnmlist@brightonnewmedia.org
Fri Feb 22 15:51:00 2002


Freelancers.net is the same. I have posed jobs on there a couple times
when I've needed an extra pair of hands. I got absolutely inundated with
replies.

T.

> 
> Mate of mine is looking for design contracts without much 
> luck. He tried a lot of the postings at noagenciesplease.com. 
> For one posting:
> 
> > Company working in garden maintenance needs a small website - 5-8 
> > pages. Usual stuff and no back-end or e-commerce. Maybe a 
> flash intro 
> > but quote separately. Send me urls, quote and timescale.
> 
> he got the response below, which confirms some suspicions:
> 
> >Dear Designer
> >
> >Thanks for replying, but there isn't a job. Sorry. I didn't 
> do this to 
> >waste your time though.
> >
> >I'm a freelance web designer, and I've been replying to 
> these postings 
> >for about 3 months now... and I haven't ever heard back from 
> a single 
> >one of them. Zilch. So I just want to know if I am too expensive, my 
> >urls are crap or what? So I posted a bogus job. Sorry to waste your 
> >time, but I just needed to know the lie of the land.
> >
> >And it's bad.
> >
> >88 replies and that's just within 3 hours. It was up to 130 
> by the time 
> >I went home. 250 and rising 24 hours later. I've now given 
> up counting. 
> >(Seriously, if you don't believe me I can pdf you a screen 
> grab of my 
> >email inbox)
> >
> >However I believe we are all in a community of web people, even if 
> >we're bidding against each other, so as a rare act of altrusim, I'm 
> >sharing the results of my research with you. It may not be much of a 
> >big deal - you could have done this yourself (I wonder how 
> many replies 
> >I made were to bogus postings) - but I have got a couple of hours to 
> >waste, so have this research on me, free, gratis, cheers mate.
> >
> >I posted the garden maintenance job at midday on 20/2/02. 
> (Oddly enough 
> >I'm supposed to be working on a real garden one quite soon if the 
> >client will get on and commit.) I checked at 12.30 and it 
> was already 
> >live. Blimey. The internet eh?
> >
> >I had 40 replies in the first hour. Only two were spam, and 
> two others 
> >didn't want the design but wanted the hosting (huh? - how 
> much profit 
> >is there in arranging hosting?).
> >
> >Attached is a pdf with a breakdown of the prices the first 40 of you 
> >all quoted. I gave up and didn't bother recording details of 
> the next 
> >200, but they followed the same spread. In the pdf is a 
> quick breakdown 
> >of your price, how long you said you'd take, how many lines in your 
> >email
> >(roughly)  and the number of URLs you supplied. I'm making 
> no judgement
> >about your actual work but I looked at every single URL and some were
> >brilliant and some were really bad (so I felt a bit better 
> because mine
> >are also good and bad, rather proportionately to the amount 
> of money the
> >client had). I was surprised at the number of people who directed me
> >solely to their home site, and expected me to navigate 
> around it looking
> >for their urls and their prices - some were OK but the majority of
> >people's sites just took too long (some didn't work!!!) - when you've
> >got 1500 URLs to go through you just give up and move on.
> >
> >40 out of the 250 replies were from outside the UK. Mainly 
> from India, 
> >quite a few from the USA (quoting on dollars) and a fair spread from 
> >Russia and Australia - my god they must be desperate -  I 
> thought the 
> >rules were UK only or have I got that wrong?
> >
> >A few comments but you can really figure it out for yourself.
> >
> >1. WE'RE UP AGAINST PEOPLE GIVING IT AWAY FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR 
> >PORTFOLIO 25,  50, 75 quid and FREE!!!! for an entire 
> website? Do me a 
> >favour. My children have got to eat. Pay peanuts and all that.
> >
> >2. WE'RE UP AGAINST EVERYONE IN THE WORLD
> >And they're all calling themselves web designers. A few were honest 
> >enough to admit they were students and graduates looking for 
> any work 
> >just to get started.
> >
> >2. PER PAGE OR SITE FEE OR HOURLY RATE
> >About 25% went for a price per page option. Personally I 
> don't, and I 
> >don't think it works like that, but it's surprising how many 
> times it 
> >worked out at the same price as an average single fee. A few 
> went for a 
> >price per hour but come on, it's always then a debate about how many 
> >hours.
> >
> >3. DESIGNERS OR PROGRAMMERS
> >This is just about reading between the lines. I'm a designer 
> - I went 
> >to art school and studied stuff. I design websites. It seems 
> to me that 
> >a lot of people who replied have done a course, know html and 
> >dreamweaver and sql or asp and can use a computer and oh, by 
> the way, 
> >they can put pictures in a website and steal a background 
> and plug it 
> >all in. Duh.
> >
> >4. BULLSHIT ALERT
> >A lot of replies talked about how they'd love to work with 
> me, and felt 
> >they were perfectly suited to garden maintenance yadda yadda 
> yadda. I 
> >suppose we all try to stand out from the crowd. Being on the 
> receiving 
> >end is quite instructive. I started out reading the entire 
> email, but 
> >after 50 replies my eyes jumped straight to the price. A lot 
> of people 
> >just didn't read the posting properly and didn't but basic price or 
> >timescale, but they did say that it depends on the length of 
> the piece 
> >of string, and I thought that was fair enough. About half 
> put a price 
> >range rather than a single figure - that's what I do as well. Some 
> >people suggested that a Flash intro is too offfputting and we've all 
> >figured around that at some point I think - amazing how many people 
> >just ignored the request for a separate flash quote. Three or four 
> >people quoted over 1500. Is any private freelancer really 
> getting that 
> >for a 6 page basic site these days?
> >
> >In case you can't be bothered to go through the pdf below, we're 
> >averaging 400 for a 5-8 page site, designed and programmed. Fair 
> >enough. Quite how the clients pick one or two from 250 
> replies I don't 
> >know, but obviously some will be going for the cheaper 
> options and some 
> >will be going by the URLs and lots don't seem to pick me. If 
> you're a 
> >pottery shop in Chelmsford I just can't see you buying a site design 
> >from someone in Calcutta but who knows.
> >
> >WHAT ABOUT ME
> >Just for your information, I too would do the job for about 
> 500-800, 
> >but I also charge 200 a day when I can get it for high-end design 
> >work. I can't do asp or e-commerce but I know a man who can. Simple 
> >flash I can do in a couple of hours, but something clever on 
> the front 
> >of a site takes me at least 3 days ie 600 quid - I haven't 
> even opened 
> >the action scripting manual because I'm scared. Ah me, why didn't I 
> >take this up in 1992 when you could get 10 grand for a 
> couple of flat 
> >pages using your trusty Mac IICI or Compaq 386.
> >
> >Thanks for your time people and I hope this has been useful to you. 
> >Good luck and let me know what you think, and if anyone has actually 
> >got a real job paying real cash through no agencies please. I would 
> >like to believe my hours of replying have been worth it.
> >
> >Tara
> 
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